* compiling an actual version of python
@ 2015-02-05 10:03 robert rottermann
2015-02-05 13:23 ` Michael Tremer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: robert rottermann @ 2015-02-05 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 328 bytes --]
Hi ,
I am new to this list and would like to say hi to everybody.
As I am an old python hand, I would like to have an actual python
running on ipfire.
So that will be my first attempt to get my feet wet with developing for
ipfire.
now my question: is such an project already in the works by somebody of you?
thanks
robert
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-05 10:03 compiling an actual version of python robert rottermann
@ 2015-02-05 13:23 ` Michael Tremer
2015-02-05 13:35 ` robert rottermann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Tremer @ 2015-02-05 13:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 871 bytes --]
Hello Robert,
IPFire already comes with Python on board.
[root(a)ipfire ~]# python
Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug 23 2013, 19:24:00)
[GCC 4.4.7] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
What are you missing and what do you want to do?
-Michael
On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 11:03 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> Hi ,
>
> I am new to this list and would like to say hi to everybody.
>
> As I am an old python hand, I would like to have an actual python
> running on ipfire.
> So that will be my first attempt to get my feet wet with developing for
> ipfire.
>
> now my question: is such an project already in the works by somebody of you?
>
> thanks
> robert
> _______________________________________________
> Development mailing list
> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-05 13:23 ` Michael Tremer
@ 2015-02-05 13:35 ` robert rottermann
2015-02-05 23:37 ` Michael Tremer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: robert rottermann @ 2015-02-05 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1246 bytes --]
Hi Michael,
On 05.02.2015 14:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
> Hello Robert,
>
> IPFire already comes with Python on board.
yes, I know that
>
> [root(a)ipfire ~]# python
> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug 23 2013, 19:24:00)
> [GCC 4.4.7] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> What are you missing and what do you want to do?
actual is 2.7.9, which has some features not available in 2.7.3
actually I would like to install some python libraries, and to install
them I need an actual version of the setup tools..
But they do not run under 2.7.3 ..
robert
>
> -Michael
>
> On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 11:03 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
>> Hi ,
>>
>> I am new to this list and would like to say hi to everybody.
>>
>> As I am an old python hand, I would like to have an actual python
>> running on ipfire.
>> So that will be my first attempt to get my feet wet with developing for
>> ipfire.
>>
>> now my question: is such an project already in the works by somebody of you?
>>
>> thanks
>> robert
>> _______________________________________________
>> Development mailing list
>> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
>> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-05 13:35 ` robert rottermann
@ 2015-02-05 23:37 ` Michael Tremer
2015-02-07 11:37 ` robert rottermann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Tremer @ 2015-02-05 23:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1963 bytes --]
Hello,
indeed the Python version is not the most recent one. And that answers
your question as well: No one is currently working on an update of this,
but we would be happy if you would look into that and send us the
patches.
Generally I don't see any problems you might expect. Please stick to the
latest version of Python 2.7 as most (if not all) python code that we
use in IPFire is not compatible with Python 3.x.
If there are any questions, feel free to consult us here on this list.
Arne already pointed you to where to start from.
-Michael
On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 14:35 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> On 05.02.2015 14:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
> > Hello Robert,
> >
> > IPFire already comes with Python on board.
> yes, I know that
> >
> > [root(a)ipfire ~]# python
> > Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug 23 2013, 19:24:00)
> > [GCC 4.4.7] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > What are you missing and what do you want to do?
> actual is 2.7.9, which has some features not available in 2.7.3
>
> actually I would like to install some python libraries, and to install
> them I need an actual version of the setup tools..
> But they do not run under 2.7.3 ..
>
> robert
>
> >
> > -Michael
> >
> > On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 11:03 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> >> Hi ,
> >>
> >> I am new to this list and would like to say hi to everybody.
> >>
> >> As I am an old python hand, I would like to have an actual python
> >> running on ipfire.
> >> So that will be my first attempt to get my feet wet with developing for
> >> ipfire.
> >>
> >> now my question: is such an project already in the works by somebody of you?
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> robert
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Development mailing list
> >> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
> >> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
> >
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-05 23:37 ` Michael Tremer
@ 2015-02-07 11:37 ` robert rottermann
2015-02-07 12:23 ` Michael Tremer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: robert rottermann @ 2015-02-07 11:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2237 bytes --]
thanks for the info
On 06.02.2015 00:37, Michael Tremer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> indeed the Python version is not the most recent one. And that answers
> your question as well: No one is currently working on an update of this,
> but we would be happy if you would look into that and send us the
> patches.
>
> Generally I don't see any problems you might expect. Please stick to the
> latest version of Python 2.7 as most (if not all) python code that we
> use in IPFire is not compatible with Python 3.x.
>
> If there are any questions, feel free to consult us here on this list.
> Arne already pointed you to where to start from.
>
> -Michael
i started with cloning the ipfire source.
now I am struck with downloading the toolchain (or wath ever is needed)
I do not find:
make.sh
anywhere in the dowloaded repo
robert
>
> On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 14:35 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
>> Hi Michael,
>> On 05.02.2015 14:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
>>> Hello Robert,
>>>
>>> IPFire already comes with Python on board.
>> yes, I know that
>>> [root(a)ipfire ~]# python
>>> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug 23 2013, 19:24:00)
>>> [GCC 4.4.7] on linux2
>>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> What are you missing and what do you want to do?
>> actual is 2.7.9, which has some features not available in 2.7.3
>>
>> actually I would like to install some python libraries, and to install
>> them I need an actual version of the setup tools..
>> But they do not run under 2.7.3 ..
>>
>> robert
>>
>>> -Michael
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 11:03 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
>>>> Hi ,
>>>>
>>>> I am new to this list and would like to say hi to everybody.
>>>>
>>>> As I am an old python hand, I would like to have an actual python
>>>> running on ipfire.
>>>> So that will be my first attempt to get my feet wet with developing for
>>>> ipfire.
>>>>
>>>> now my question: is such an project already in the works by somebody of you?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> robert
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Development mailing list
>>>> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
>>>> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-07 11:37 ` robert rottermann
@ 2015-02-07 12:23 ` Michael Tremer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Tremer @ 2015-02-07 12:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2925 bytes --]
Hi,
I don't know what you downloaded, but it does not seem to be the right
thing.
You will need to check out the Git repository. How to do that is shown
over here:
http://wiki.ipfire.org/en/development/git
Ignore the IPFire 3 stuff. After that, you will need to do what is
described in the build howto:
http://wiki.ipfire.org/en/development/build
Apart from that, there is also this:
http://wiki.ipfire.org/en/development/addon
Good luck,
-Michael
On Sat, 2015-02-07 at 12:37 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> thanks for the info
> On 06.02.2015 00:37, Michael Tremer wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > indeed the Python version is not the most recent one. And that answers
> > your question as well: No one is currently working on an update of this,
> > but we would be happy if you would look into that and send us the
> > patches.
> >
> > Generally I don't see any problems you might expect. Please stick to the
> > latest version of Python 2.7 as most (if not all) python code that we
> > use in IPFire is not compatible with Python 3.x.
> >
> > If there are any questions, feel free to consult us here on this list.
> > Arne already pointed you to where to start from.
> >
> > -Michael
>
> i started with cloning the ipfire source.
> now I am struck with downloading the toolchain (or wath ever is needed)
> I do not find:
>
> make.sh
>
> anywhere in the dowloaded repo
>
> robert
>
> >
> > On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 14:35 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> >> Hi Michael,
> >> On 05.02.2015 14:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
> >>> Hello Robert,
> >>>
> >>> IPFire already comes with Python on board.
> >> yes, I know that
> >>> [root(a)ipfire ~]# python
> >>> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug 23 2013, 19:24:00)
> >>> [GCC 4.4.7] on linux2
> >>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> What are you missing and what do you want to do?
> >> actual is 2.7.9, which has some features not available in 2.7.3
> >>
> >> actually I would like to install some python libraries, and to install
> >> them I need an actual version of the setup tools..
> >> But they do not run under 2.7.3 ..
> >>
> >> robert
> >>
> >>> -Michael
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 2015-02-05 at 11:03 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> >>>> Hi ,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am new to this list and would like to say hi to everybody.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I am an old python hand, I would like to have an actual python
> >>>> running on ipfire.
> >>>> So that will be my first attempt to get my feet wet with developing for
> >>>> ipfire.
> >>>>
> >>>> now my question: is such an project already in the works by somebody of you?
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks
> >>>> robert
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Development mailing list
> >>>> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
> >>>> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-08 8:42 ` robert rottermann
@ 2015-02-09 11:26 ` Arne Fitzenreiter
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Arne Fitzenreiter @ 2015-02-09 11:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4529 bytes --]
Try to use the download toolchain instead of toolchain build. Many
systems are not able to build the
toolchain. (e.g. 64bit or multilib systems)
Run
./make.sh gettoolchain
to download a precompiled toolcain.
Arne
On , robert rottermann wrote:
> next problem:
>
> i did copy the python source archve as instructed:
> cp python/Python-2.7.9.tar.xz ipfire-2.x/cache/
>
> and changed
> vim ~/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/lfs/python
> on line 27 change
> VER = 2.7.3
> to
> VER = 2.7.9
>
> but running
> ./make.sh toolchain
>
> produces the following error
>
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:141: warning: empty declaration
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:149: error: storage class specified for
> parameter 'hashtab'
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:152: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:165: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:180: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:198: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:215: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:237: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:271: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:282: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:318: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:400: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:436: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:448: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
> '__attribute__' before '{' token
> /usr/include/unistd.h:756: error: old-style parameter declarations in
> prototyped function definition
> scripts/basic/fixdep.c:462: error: expected '{' at end of input
> make[2]: *** [scripts/basic/fixdep] Error 1
> make[1]: *** [scripts_basic] Error 2
> make[1]: Leaving directory
> `/home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/build/usr/src/linux-3.14.31'
> make: ***
> [/home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/log/linux-3.14.31-ipfire-headers-tools]
> Error 2
>
> more advice needed ..
> thanks
> robert
>
>
> On 07.02.2015 19:56, Michael Tremer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> no, the build system does not replace your system, but requires root
>> permissions. Those could damage your system in case anything
>> unexpected
>> happens, so creating a virtual machine which you can just delete and
>> reinstall is a good option.
>>
>> -Michael
>>
>> On Sat, 2015-02-07 at 19:54 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
>>> new problem/question ..
>>>
>>> now I get the following message:
>>> *** Packaged toolchain compilation
>>> version options time (sec) status
>>> Resetting our nice level to 10
>>> [ DONE ]
>>> Checking if we're running as root user
>>> [ FAIL ]
>>>
>>> ERROR: Not building as root
>>> Check
>>> /home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/log/_build.preparation.log
>>> for errors if applicable
>>> robert(a)chrissy:~/ipfire/ipfire-2.x$
>>>
>>>
>>> why should I do that as root?
>>>
>>> is the build process replacing my system?
>>>
>>> this is not what I want actually ..
>>>
>>> I think I restart everything in a virtual machine ..
>>>
>>> robert
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07.02.2015 19:47, robert rottermann wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07.02.2015 13:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ignore the IPFire 3 stuff. After that, you will need to do what is
>>>>> described in the build howto:
>>>> aha, thats ignoring IPFire 3 stuff is the key here..
>>>> However, this is what is NOT, what is explained in the wiki
>>>>
>>>> git clone ssh://<user>@git.ipfire.org/pub/git/ipfire-3.x.git # Could
>>>> also be checked out via the git proto
>>>> c
>>>> ol
>>>> cd ipfire-3.x/
>>>> git remote add <user>
>>>> ssh://<user>@git.ipfire.org/pub/git/people/<user>/ipfire-3.x.git
>>>> thanks,
>>>> robert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Development mailing list
>>>> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
>>>> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>
> _______________________________________________
> Development mailing list
> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
2015-02-07 18:56 ` Michael Tremer
@ 2015-02-08 8:42 ` robert rottermann
2015-02-09 11:26 ` Arne Fitzenreiter
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: robert rottermann @ 2015-02-08 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4031 bytes --]
next problem:
i did copy the python source archve as instructed:
cp python/Python-2.7.9.tar.xz ipfire-2.x/cache/
and changed
vim ~/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/lfs/python
on line 27 change
VER = 2.7.3
to
VER = 2.7.9
but running
./make.sh toolchain
produces the following error
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:141: warning: empty declaration
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:149: error: storage class specified for parameter 'hashtab'
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:152: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:165: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:180: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:198: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:215: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:237: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:271: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:282: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:318: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:400: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:436: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:448: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or
'__attribute__' before '{' token
/usr/include/unistd.h:756: error: old-style parameter declarations in prototyped
function definition
scripts/basic/fixdep.c:462: error: expected '{' at end of input
make[2]: *** [scripts/basic/fixdep] Error 1
make[1]: *** [scripts_basic] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/build/usr/src/linux-3.14.31'
make: ***
[/home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/log/linux-3.14.31-ipfire-headers-tools] Error 2
more advice needed ..
thanks
robert
On 07.02.2015 19:56, Michael Tremer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> no, the build system does not replace your system, but requires root
> permissions. Those could damage your system in case anything unexpected
> happens, so creating a virtual machine which you can just delete and
> reinstall is a good option.
>
> -Michael
>
> On Sat, 2015-02-07 at 19:54 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
>> new problem/question ..
>>
>> now I get the following message:
>> *** Packaged toolchain compilation
>> version options time (sec) status
>> Resetting our nice level to 10
>> [ DONE ]
>> Checking if we're running as root user
>> [ FAIL ]
>>
>> ERROR: Not building as root
>> Check /home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/log/_build.preparation.log
>> for errors if applicable
>> robert(a)chrissy:~/ipfire/ipfire-2.x$
>>
>>
>> why should I do that as root?
>>
>> is the build process replacing my system?
>>
>> this is not what I want actually ..
>>
>> I think I restart everything in a virtual machine ..
>>
>> robert
>>
>>
>> On 07.02.2015 19:47, robert rottermann wrote:
>>
>>> On 07.02.2015 13:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ignore the IPFire 3 stuff. After that, you will need to do what is
>>>> described in the build howto:
>>> aha, thats ignoring IPFire 3 stuff is the key here..
>>> However, this is what is NOT, what is explained in the wiki
>>>
>>> git clone ssh://<user>@git.ipfire.org/pub/git/ipfire-3.x.git # Could also be checked out via the git proto
>>> c
>>> ol
>>> cd ipfire-3.x/
>>> git remote add <user> ssh://<user>@git.ipfire.org/pub/git/people/<user>/ipfire-3.x.git
>>> thanks,
>>> robert
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Development mailing list
>>> Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
>>> http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: compiling an actual version of python
[not found] <54D65F7A.7050700@redcor.ch>
@ 2015-02-07 18:56 ` Michael Tremer
2015-02-08 8:42 ` robert rottermann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Tremer @ 2015-02-07 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1776 bytes --]
Hi,
no, the build system does not replace your system, but requires root
permissions. Those could damage your system in case anything unexpected
happens, so creating a virtual machine which you can just delete and
reinstall is a good option.
-Michael
On Sat, 2015-02-07 at 19:54 +0100, robert rottermann wrote:
> new problem/question ..
>
> now I get the following message:
> *** Packaged toolchain compilation
> version options time (sec) status
> Resetting our nice level to 10
> [ DONE ]
> Checking if we're running as root user
> [ FAIL ]
>
> ERROR: Not building as root
> Check /home/robert/ipfire/ipfire-2.x/log/_build.preparation.log
> for errors if applicable
> robert(a)chrissy:~/ipfire/ipfire-2.x$
>
>
> why should I do that as root?
>
> is the build process replacing my system?
>
> this is not what I want actually ..
>
> I think I restart everything in a virtual machine ..
>
> robert
>
>
> On 07.02.2015 19:47, robert rottermann wrote:
>
> > On 07.02.2015 13:23, Michael Tremer wrote:
> >
> > > Ignore the IPFire 3 stuff. After that, you will need to do what is
> > > described in the build howto:
> > aha, thats ignoring IPFire 3 stuff is the key here..
> > However, this is what is NOT, what is explained in the wiki
> >
> > git clone ssh://<user>@git.ipfire.org/pub/git/ipfire-3.x.git # Could also be checked out via the git proto
> > c
> > ol
> > cd ipfire-3.x/
> > git remote add <user> ssh://<user>@git.ipfire.org/pub/git/people/<user>/ipfire-3.x.git
> > thanks,
> > robert
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Development mailing list
> > Development(a)lists.ipfire.org
> > http://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2015-02-05 10:03 compiling an actual version of python robert rottermann
2015-02-05 13:23 ` Michael Tremer
2015-02-05 13:35 ` robert rottermann
2015-02-05 23:37 ` Michael Tremer
2015-02-07 11:37 ` robert rottermann
2015-02-07 12:23 ` Michael Tremer
[not found] <54D65F7A.7050700@redcor.ch>
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2015-02-09 11:26 ` Arne Fitzenreiter
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