From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Michael Tremer To: development@lists.ipfire.org Subject: Re: Question concerning the IDS2016 log Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 21:53:43 +0100 Message-ID: <1473713623.2757.109.camel@ipfire.org> In-Reply-To: <57D38407.3030801@dailydata.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7475664795002344601==" List-Id: --===============7475664795002344601== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Fri, 2016-09-09 at 22:54 -0500, R. W. Rodolico wrote: > Actually, I have 10+ systems running on Soekris machines, i586 32 bit > AMD Geode's. See http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html. These are > not end of life; they are currently being marketed for vpn > firewall/routers. I have some that have been running The form factor of that hardware is nice, but it is really outdated. You can = get something way more powerful for about the same money I think. > I'm assuming they will not be able to be upgraded after a certain point? I am not sure if this was clear or not, but this change will only affect IPFi= re 3. So with that there will be no i686 version. We will keep running the i586 version of IPFire 2 until we end support for IPFire 2 as a whole. But we think that the hardware (mainly memory) requirements for IPFire 3 will exceed this hardware any ways and as there are many alternatives available you should not buy anything too old any more. Anything that is about 8 years or newer will probably support 64 bit. > That is sad, because these are very stable systems and run nicely with > very little memory and extremely low power. >=20 > One of the offices I use it at has 50+ employees, 40+ Mbit data line, > and some firewall rules built in, along with a site-to-site VPN and a > couple or Road Warriors. >=20 > All of these systems have pakinfo running on them, so you should see > them in the database. Fireinfo appears to show only 13% of the > firewalls out there are 64 bit? Am I reading that wrong? Fireinfo data shows the following (as of today): * 13% of the systems known to fireinfo are running IPFire 2 x86_64 =C2=A0 (http://fireinfo.ipfire.org/statistics/processors) * 77% of all systems known to fireinfo would be able to run x86_64 =C2=A0 (http://fireinfo.ipfire.org/statistics/processors/x86) So that is a huge majority. I assume that many of the VMs are just running as= 32 bit and probably would support 64 bit, too. So that number could be close to 90%. > But, I do see where ARM is not happening. In fireinfo ARM basically does not exist. Sadly. >=20 > Rod >=20 > On 09/08/2016 12:35 PM, Michael Tremer wrote: > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > On Thu, 2016-09-08 at 16:30 +0000, IT Superhack wrote: > > >=20 > > > Hello Michael, hello development-list, > > >=20 > > > I have a question concerning the IDS2016 (URL: > > > http://wiki.ipfire.org/ids/2016 /log), where it says: "Dropping > > > i686 + armv5tel - No need for it any more" > >=20 > > Yeah, we didn't really log everything what we talked about. There > > was a little bit more than that and there is probably a little bit > > more detail to all of it than that. > >=20 > > But generally we didn't make as many decisions as we used to do > > since we have the monthly telephone conference. > >=20 > > >=20 > > > To me, it has not become fully clear if this means the > > > architecture or the whole release format. For example, nearly > > > nobody (Fireinfo says: 0,07%) is running an IPFire system with > > > the armv5tel architecture - these are afaik mostly old systems > > > like the Raspberry Pi which are certainly not suitable for a > > > firewall purpose. > >=20 > > So to give a little bit more detail: > >=20 > > The plan is to drop all 32 bit architectures as soon as possible. > > We do not see any point in supporting these any longer. > >=20 > > That starts with ARM where we never really got a number of users > > that is high enough to justify all the effort that is going into > > development of this. > >=20 > > And secondly x86: All hardware that is bought today or in the last > > ~5 years will support 64 bit. If it doesn't and if someone bought > > an other ALIX device that is just bad luck. These are too slow to > > run an IPFire system decently any ways and there is better > > alternatives on the market. > >=20 > > That is why we do not see any point whatsoever to continue > > supporting these architectures. > >=20 > > We will keep armv7hl for now because there is a some hardware > > around and our build system use it, but this will probably go away > > very soon when there is no usable hardware around soon. > >=20 > > >=20 > > > On the other hand, > 80% run an i686 system, and I guess it > > > wouldn't make sense to make these installations unusable because > > > of EOL. But maybe "dropping" means that you will remove some > > > specific patches for i686, so these will run with i586 > > > afterwards. > >=20 > > No, this will scrap support for i686 entirely. > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Within the ARM stuff, the situation is not that clear for me. Are > > > you panning to remove the ARM support at all? Or are you going to > > > remove ARMv5 devices from the "supported ARM devices list"? > >=20 > > We actually have done that in the past and we did not add any new > > hardware support in the last few years. > >=20 > > There is neither support nor any requests from the community for > > this. > >=20 > > Feel free to leave your comments on this. Would be happy to hear if > > someone can come up with at least one argument to continue 32 bit > > support. We couldn't find a single one. > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Sorry if there is a misunderstanding here - got way little coffe > > > today. ;-) > > >=20 > > > Best regards, Timmothy Wilson > >=20 > > Best, -Michael > >=20 >=20 --===============7475664795002344601== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" MIME-Version: 1.0 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjIKCmlRSWNCQUFC Q2dBR0JRSlgxeFhYQUFvSkVJQjU4UDl2a0FrSGNsVVFBTEFDNEl0am5HZDNZcFRkbGJKajU2SW4K ZUlwY3IyY0pwbmhtdU0xYmRmMzg2Z0tLRmVHcGdHZjVneHdHMW5TMEh1UktZZk5DcHFYZHN4cy9J aFRJOUd0bwpJT1EvUWNrYSsyU240NElBeGxhSmFsNGRQdlUwMjAvQmdIclJaVTV3SUl4VlFQQ1lY YXNZSFN3MXlJNGRDNE5lCmx2QXZLQVhyYkt6bU10N3gvb2xYZFUyNkNtb2pwTEh0d3l5d21hQ25Q ZVI0SWhtSEtacXdnZWJEaHM4UjVEeFcKa1VsM2xZaHNDQnJRWkt4VThMWkxMV0M5eDJjQ0UzdFg2 aXFpblJNeEw3dk1zbkVHMGMxYk1UaFUrdWR5N3lJRQpxcHJRTjBzMitlcWFmWnJFc3A5bWpWbDJw UVlwbE51MjRxNk9BT3ptMTRJYlVLdnJIQ3NIYUNLSU5GVE03U1VrCjlxZno4cFdtdUVPb1FRanN1 a0NsVE0yZjJLZkxqWjBnb1J2cEdydk9hZFU1c3NiRjhQSXR1dUR3WGdSNlBJd20KNGc5Wm1CU2Fl RE1QblIxaTN1L0dYd2RMTk5kcWY2V3ZMQUtNeGR3ZVJjaHg3TjZhN2wxQ1k5aEs2MnlSZ251Ywox ckJzUWt2MWtTcUFGaFNiU252aWdSVFdoRkxDQUtESTg1WkJrTmtqZEhMNERwN1JDVitxYUMxVElQ eEkwZ0FnCmFyRWlqMW5tRFZoMWVJWkw0eE93UWNhQVgzdGpkSUU0V05kRHp2VXU0NnA5Z2VIdUcr VURQL1U3YjRLMGNjaWIKeEt1dHMyU3JlQnVKQSs3U2dybUhnYUJmdi9sT0NVYkhZWmNjcjFXTUdQ ZUlHUjNKZWNiRnlkUUZMQzF2bWw5VQpuUVdGcXRWNDh3K3BuY0RkRHhYSQo9eUM5RQotLS0tLUVO RCBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============7475664795002344601==--