From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: IT Superhack To: development@lists.ipfire.org Subject: Re: Question concerning the IDS2016 log Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 09:48:00 +0000 Message-ID: <69678539-d99f-ff78-db1b-c170bfd26c85@web.de> In-Reply-To: <1473356159.2757.77.camel@ipfire.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2121710101024300859==" List-Id: --===============2121710101024300859== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Michael Tremer: > Hi, >=20 > On Thu, 2016-09-08 at 16:30 +0000, IT Superhack wrote: >> Hello Michael, >> hello development-list, >> >> I have a question concerning the IDS2016 (URL: http://wiki.ipfire.org/ids/= 2016 >> /log), >> where it says: "Dropping i686 + armv5tel - No need for it any more" >=20 > Yeah, we didn't really log everything what we talked about. There was a lit= tle > bit more than that and there is probably a little bit more detail to all of= it > than that. >=20 > But generally we didn't make as many decisions as we used to do since we ha= ve > the monthly telephone conference. That's okay. The logs of your telephone conferences are mostly very useful. := -) >=20 >> To me, it has not become fully clear if this means the architecture or the >> whole >> release format. For example, nearly nobody (Fireinfo says: 0,07%) is runni= ng >> an IPFire system with the armv5tel architecture - these are afaik mostly o= ld >> systems like the Raspberry Pi which are certainly not suitable for a firew= all >> purpose. >=20 > So to give a little bit more detail: >=20 > The plan is to drop all 32 bit architectures as soon as possible. We do not= see > any point in supporting these any longer. >=20 > That starts with ARM where we never really got a number of users that is hi= gh > enough to justify all the effort that is going into development of this. >=20 > And secondly x86: All hardware that is bought today or in the last ~5 years= will > support 64 bit. If it doesn't and if someone bought an other ALIX device th= at is > just bad luck. These are too slow to run an IPFire system decently any ways= and > there is better alternatives on the market. >=20 > That is why we do not see any point whatsoever to continue supporting these > architectures. In my point of view, that's really sad. ARM could be a great thing if the ven= dors would provide the source codes (which most of them don't) and if the boards w= ould last for some time. Personally, I am content with the ARM architecture for firewall purposes since it is more secure. For example, there is no "Management Engine", which we kno= w from Intel CPUs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology#Security). Second, it is very hard to find a usable hardware which is only consummating = ~ 3 Watts when idle. >=20 > We will keep armv7hl for now because there is a some hardware around and our > build system use it, but this will probably go away very soon when there is= no > usable hardware around soon. Hm, I see. Hope devices like Banana Pi and Wandboard will last some time... >=20 >> On the other hand, > 80% run an i686 system, and I guess it wouldn't make >> sense to make these installations unusable because of EOL. But maybe >> "dropping" >> means that you will remove some specific patches for i686, so these will >> run with i586 afterwards. >=20 > No, this will scrap support for i686 entirely. >=20 >> Within the ARM stuff, the situation is not that clear for me. Are you pann= ing >> to remove the ARM support at all? Or are you going to remove ARMv5 devices >> from >> the "supported ARM devices list"? >=20 > We actually have done that in the past and we did not add any new hardware > support in the last few years. >=20 > There is neither support nor any requests from the community for this. >=20 > Feel free to leave your comments on this. Would be happy to hear if someone= can > come up with at least one argument to continue 32 bit support. We couldn't = find > a single one. Well, as Rod wrote in his mail, there might be some networks which consist of "legacy" systems. Here, it might be useful to post a message on the planet a = month or so before discontinue support so they can upgrade. >=20 >> Sorry if there is a misunderstanding here - got way little coffe today. ;-) >> >> Best regards, >> Timmothy Wilson >=20 > Best, > -Michael >=20 Best regards, Timmothy Wilson --===============2121710101024300859== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" MIME-Version: 1.0 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KCmlRRWNCQUVCQ2dBR0JRSlgxU2gwQUFvSkVP eUxhMUM1RWF6clNiVUlBSmlrc3VzMnFCbG05MXQwbmhoMkVLSVkKa1dGcWM0dGlNY0NRL2xMU21j UmM5OW43Z3BZR042OGhydDlQVTJDbDgxdGR0ZXpXa2JDOC93ZFdxUzdtTjkrSgpTU3ZncURrL1lk ZS9zbVQ5SERxdHBMZHAyem1FT2o3amZaUlBkZHhDL1JhSFJIa3RseGZtNFhwM21zbm5kQThUCnZx bXhJTFhublpqM1lNbERSRWpkcGp0NXZObHR6NUJ3ZU4wQ3FmVUVnODNpUWh6OERVY21UMkNhTnpm UGYvV1gKbHVQejB1MzNmcTRaRWw5ODJxU1ZET2xOdUxqMWxhOS9EbHZVREFrMkdBa010TThCdVFX SFI3V0dheXUxdzVFQgpaSUpraHV1L3BBWHNaVHpuRGlvUjVOUkxuZ3p1UWw5dG1yZHh5cHV3UEFH d2NxMTlnbzUxelpmc0tnZ0Q1Y2s9Cj1XNWJFCi0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQo= --===============2121710101024300859==--