From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Mathew McBride To: development@lists.ipfire.org Subject: Re: ARM 64? Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:45:50 +1000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9109065649216799584==" List-Id: --===============9109065649216799584== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, =EF=BB=BFOn 25/5/18, 12:44 am, "Michael Tremer" = wrote: Hey, =20 IPFire is not based on any other distribution like Ubuntu is (was?) based= on Debian. So we have to port the entire userspace as well as the kernel. Our kernel is also highly customised because the needs of a firewall and secu= re and hardened systems vary a lot from other server systems. Understood. I've had a look through the repositories - I take it only 3.x is = planned to have armv8/arm64 support. Does the userspace build on arm64 at the= moment? =20 We also put a huge emphasis on performance. Networks need to be fast. =20 There isn't too much great build hardware out there for us right now. We = have some smaller system that I can use to play around a bit for a start in a = data center. The Mustang system I have doesn't run too well because there is a= huge hardware bug in the SATA controller. =20 There are a couple of options out there, NXP has a Cortex-A72 based SoC's (an= d devboards) that would be better suited to build tasks. I'm not sure how it = stacks up with X-Gene/Mustang but the marketing claims are that A72 (when giv= en a good amount of L2/L3 cache) can hold up against Xeon D's in single threa= d. I'm hoping ThunderX2 (Cavium) hosts start appearing on cloud providers soon a= s well. There are ThunderX (v1) instances available, but that core had very p= oor single thread performance for a server. I do kernel and other builds (Funtoo/Gentoo) all the time on our hardware; bu= t this is more for 'dogfooding'/load testing purposes!=20 > > If you build an image that uses UEFI boot it will work on both our > hardware > > (bare metal), as a VM and on the ARM64 server platforms (Ampere/X= Gene, > > Centriq, ThunderX), or even our competitors (MacchiatoBin etc.) > =20 > and the OS is on SSD or SD card? > Yes, u-boot is on the NAND. It will boot EFI distributions on any suppo= rted > block device (SD, USB, SSD). > There are some limitations - no EFI persistent variables etc. (yet) or = RTC > service, but I think that will eventually be solved. =20 In this hardware or in a future one? =20 On this hardware. For example, to implement the EFI variable service, we will= probably have to make the NAND inaccessible to Linux in EFI-mode.=20 (If you package your images to work on 'removable media', as required for ARM= standard VM's, you probably don't need efivars anyway). With the real time clock - we have a discrete RTC chip on our board, whereas = the major distributions expect a 'platform' RTC (like x86). Not an issue for = embedded distributions but having the EFI RTC will solve system clock issues = on the major distros. =20 > 'Real' ARM servers (these days) also use ACPI instead of passing a devi= ce > tree, but this doesn't really make much of a difference in user space. =20 Not to userspace but to our kernel. =20 We don't support EFI yet on x86 because there was never any demand for it. Servers are still happy with the legacy mode and people don't seem to tru= st the bigger EFI blobs that are running on modern systems. =20 I suppose this hardware comes without a management engine and all of that= stuff? =20 Definitely. No hidden blobs here :) There is a TrustZone firmware running in the ring/EL above the OS, for the NX= P Layerscape/QorIQ SoC's this firmware is open source, and not strictly requi= red to run the system (it gets loaded by u-boot after power on). It is, however, required to do certain functions that the ARM server standard= expects (such as moving between ring/ELs) - EFI boot does not work without i= t. Best, -Michael Cheers, Matt > Matt > >=20 > > -------- Forwarded Message --------=20 > > Subject:=20 > > Re: ARM 64? > > Date:=20 > > Wed, 23 May 2018 10:58:00 +0100 > > From:=20 > > Michael Tremer mailto:michael.tremer(a)ipfire.org > > To:=20 > > mailto:guy(a)traverse.com.au, mailto:development(a)lists.ipfire.o= rg > >=20 > > Hello Guy, > >=20 > > thank you very much for getting in touch. > >=20 > > Yes, we are working on an ARM 64 port, but so far we have not see= n any > > hardware > > that was worth doing the port for. All those small and cheap sing= le- > board > > computers lack power, the bigger systems are basically unavailabl= e and > way too > > expensive. > >=20 > > This board is way different though. CPU, Memory and especially th= e NICs > are > > something that are way better sized and make a nice small applian= ce for > bigger > > SOHOs or small to medium-sized offices. > >=20 > > Not entirely sure why there is only one 10G port. Usually where 1= 0G goes > in, > > it > > has to go out somewhere else again... > >=20 > > The big question is what software support is like in the Linux ke= rnel > for > > this. > > I have seen the patches linked on the product page and can only d= efer to > Arne > > to > > have a look at it. > >=20 > > My question would now be: What is the desired RRP for this or who= lesale? > I am > > just curious to find out if it is competitive or if people would = find it > too > > expensive and buy Intel again. Then we shouldn't really bother wi= th > putting > > the > > time into a port. If you are not comfortable sharing prices on th= e list, > > please > > feel free to email me in private about this. > >=20 > > About the sponsorship. Thank you very much for considering us. I = would > be > > happy > > to have a closer look. Would you be able to ship this into the UK= or > Germany? > >=20 > > Best, > > -Michael > >=20 > > On Wed, 2018-05-23 at 12:46 +1000, Guy Ellis wrote: > > > Dear list, > > >=20 > > > Just wondering if there is any interest in supporting ARM 64 ha= rdware=20 > > > moving forward? > > >=20 > > > We can assist with donated hardware and support if there is int= erest. > > > https://traverse.com.au/products/ls1043s-router-board/ > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > - Guy. > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 =20 --===============9109065649216799584==--