Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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I just updated popper.js. Error is gone.

So how are the changes to the wiki?

> On 30 May 2019, at 18:24, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Preview works!  Yay!
> 
> But I still get this error:
> Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 ()
> https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/static/js/popper.min.js.map
> 
> 
>> From: Michael Tremer
>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 12:22 PM
>> To: Jon Murphy
>> Cc: documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org, Matthias Fischer
>> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It looks like this was only broken for the index page.
>> 
>> I pushed out some changes. Please try again.
>> 
>> -Michael
>> 
>>> On 30 May 2019, at 18:04, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Michael - The preview does not work for me.  I see the word "Preview" and then to the far right I see a spinning circle.  Below that I see "Loading...".
>>> 
>>> Jon
>>> 
>>> <Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 11.45.40 AM.png>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: Michael Tremer
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 9:50 AM
>>>> To: Matthias Fischer
>>>> Cc: Jon Murphy; documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
>>>> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Okay, I just pushed some changes.
>>>> 
>>>> There is now a preview function which automatically updates. I quite like it. Tell me what you think.
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 17 Jul 2019, at 23:57, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Does this mean using only the Basic Syntax (John Gruber’s original design)? In my opinion, the basic syntax is not complete. I’d strongly suggest using the extended syntax (https://www.markdownguide.org/extended-syntax).

No, this is the extended syntax that we are using here.

> 
> Will HTML be restricted?  From Basic Syntax Markdown Guide (https://www.markdownguide.org/basic-syntax/):  

No, not for now. But there is absolutely no point in using it.

Everything should be markdown. I will implement filtering HTML tags soon when there is time for it.

> 
>    Note: Using Markdown doesn't mean that you can't also use HTML. You can add HTML tags to any Markdown file. This is helpful if you prefer certain HTML tags to Markdown syntax. For example, some people find that it's easier to use HTML tags for images.

Please don’t do that. What is the point of markdown in the first place then?

This will break the layout, make it impossible to render the documentation into PDF and many things more.

-Michael

> 
> 
>> 
>> I changed from the markdown2 python module back to the default one which seems to be used more often. I think we should stick very closely to the original markdown syntax. I find that one quite loose already and it allows 10 different ways to do the same thing, but this is what people are used to.
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

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Does this mean using only the Basic Syntax (John Gruber’s original design)? In my opinion, the basic syntax is not complete. I’d strongly suggest using the extended syntax (https://www.markdownguide.org/extended-syntax).

Will HTML be restricted?  From Basic Syntax Markdown Guide (https://www.markdownguide.org/basic-syntax/):  

    Note: Using Markdown doesn't mean that you can't also use HTML. You can add HTML tags to any Markdown file. This is helpful if you prefer certain HTML tags to Markdown syntax. For example, some people find that it's easier to use HTML tags for images.


> 
> I changed from the markdown2 python module back to the default one which seems to be used more often. I think we should stick very closely to the original markdown syntax. I find that one quite loose already and it allows 10 different ways to do the same thing, but this is what people are used to.
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 17 Jul 2019, at 04:17, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> This might help with syntax highlighting:
> 
> https://fletcher.github.io/MultiMarkdown-6/syntax/fences.html

This was already on. There was just a python module missing as well as some CSS.

> And multi markdown may help add other function enhancements (like tables, footnotes, etc).
> 
> https://fletcherpenney.net/multimarkdown/

This is however not a python module.

I changed from the markdown2 python module back to the default one which seems to be used more often. I think we should stick very closely to the original markdown syntax. I find that one quite loose already and it allows 10 different ways to do the same thing, but this is what people are used to.

On this test page I added some things. Images, tables. They seem to work and look fine.

  https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/test

Please test.

If there are no further objections, I would prefer to push out the new wiki next week.

Best,
-Michael

> 
> 
> 
>> From: Michael Tremer
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019, 11:34 AM
>> To: Jon Murphy
>> Cc: ummeegge; documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
>> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Sorry to pick this up this late again. It has been a month.
>> 
>> However, I removed all custom syntax from the wiki. We are now on pure Markdown and I did a reimport.
>> 
>> Please have a look as always.
>> 
>> I did not fix the syntax highlighting bug yet, but I will get to that soon.
>> 
>> Also I would like to push things out as soon as possible.
>> 
>> -Michael
>> 
>>> On 6 Jun 2019, at 04:30, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Syntax highlights did not work for me.  Maybe part of extended markdown.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> ```bash
>>>> code
>>>> ```
>>>> 
>>>> I did not test if our wiki highlights the syntax. If not, then the python module I am using does not support this or it isn’t switched on. In either case, let me know :)
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hello,

Sorry to pick this up this late again. It has been a month.

However, I removed all custom syntax from the wiki. We are now on pure Markdown and I did a reimport.

Please have a look as always.

I did not fix the syntax highlighting bug yet, but I will get to that soon.

Also I would like to push things out as soon as possible.

-Michael

> On 6 Jun 2019, at 04:30, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Syntax highlights did not work for me.  Maybe part of extended markdown.
> 
> 
>> ```bash
>> code
>> ```
>> 
>> I did not test if our wiki highlights the syntax. If not, then the python module I am using does not support this or it isn’t switched on. In either case, let me know :)
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

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Syntax highlights did not work for me.  Maybe part of extended markdown.


> ```bash
> code
> ```
> 
> I did not test if our wiki highlights the syntax. If not, then the python module I am using does not support this or it isn’t switched on. In either case, let me know :)

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

So here is a question:

I thought it would be a good idea to extend the syntax of the wiki. I am not convinced that this is probably a bad idea.

Jon is right. People just know markdown. We should stick to it as closely as possible.

I can change the images, that is very quickly done.

But my question would now be about the links.

Right now we have this format: [[link]]

This even fetches the headline from the page called “link” so that everywhere in the wiki, the correct title is being used.

There is also the option of this: [[link|Another Text]]

That way, the text can be changed.

Markdown links look like this: [Text](link)

I am fine with the syntax. It is well known, etc.

But what do we do in the first case, when we do not want to write the title?

Does this look right? [](link)

-Michael

> On 30 May 2019, at 20:30, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That is what I remember!  
> 
> Also from what I remember (and my memory is not good!) the [Caption] is more like an ALT text.  I think it is called a tool tip and it pops up after a few moments. ![Caption](/image.png) would be easier to remember for people that had used markdown.
> 
> 
>> No this is not markdown.
>> 
>> Markdown would be ![Caption](/image.png).
>> 
>> Would you prefer that syntax? Is that better?
>> 
>> -Michael
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 1 Jun 2019, at 13:09, ummeegge <ummeegge(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> am currently not really in this topic but great Michael that you
> figuring something new out :-), thanks for that.
> 
> Wanted to ask if there is a possiblity for a language specific syntax
> highlighting like it was before via e.g. 
> <code bash>
> code
> </code>
> 
> ? Currently we have in the new wiki 
> 
> ```
> code
> ```
> was far as i could see in the first place…

Yes, markdown supports that too. Just write:


```bash
code
```

I did not test if our wiki highlights the syntax. If not, then the python module I am using does not support this or it isn’t switched on. In either case, let me know :)

-Michael

> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Documentation mailing list
> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[ummeegge]

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Hi all,
am currently not really in this topic but great Michael that you
figuring something new out :-), thanks for that.

Wanted to ask if there is a possiblity for a language specific syntax
highlighting like it was before via e.g. 
<code bash>
code
</code>

? Currently we have in the new wiki 

```
code
```
was far as i could see in the first place...


Best,

Erik

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

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That is what I remember!  

Also from what I remember (and my memory is not good!) the [Caption] is more like an ALT text.  I think it is called a tool tip and it pops up after a few moments. ![Caption](/image.png) would be easier to remember for people that had used markdown.


> No this is not markdown.
> 
> Markdown would be ![Caption](/image.png).
> 
> Would you prefer that syntax? Is that better?
> 
> -Michael
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

No this is not markdown.

Markdown would be ![Caption](/image.png).

Would you prefer that syntax? Is that better?

-Michael

> On 30 May 2019, at 20:23, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Works well!
> 
> I'm glad you added the example.  Is a double brace (curly brackets?) new to Markdown?  It is something I hadn't seen before.
> 
>> 
>> None of the images have any. But in the example there was one:
>> 
>> {{image.png|This is a caption}}
>> 
>> Try it :)
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

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Works well!

I'm glad you added the example.  Is a double brace (curly brackets?) new to Markdown?  It is something I hadn't seen before.

> 
> None of the images have any. But in the example there was one:
> 
>  {{image.png|This is a caption}}
> 
> Try it :)

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 30 May 2019, at 20:02, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Yeah, so images are difficult. Please do not size them before uploading them.
>> 
>> When writing the wiki, I found that there is no point in having an image that is not full width. What would that be? Screenshots are full size. Logos and so on can also fill the whole screen. Consider that we do not know the screen size of the user. Having an image sized to half the width of the white column would maybe work on your desktop, but not on someones much smaller phone screen.
>> 
> 
> The only reasons I know of is visual appeal and faster page loads (for a smaller sized image).  And agreed, screenshots are full size.  

I forgot to mention that the wiki of course scales them down and I spent quite a lot of time on compressing the images as much as possible. So don’t worry about that.

>> 
>> This page uses those images for example: https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/installation/step3
>> 
>> Check out the caption. I like that one a lot :)
>> 
> 
> I don't find any captions.  I must be looking in the wrong place or at the wrong image! (My wife says I am blind!)

None of the images have any. But in the example there was one:

  {{image.png|This is a caption}}

Try it :)

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 30 May 2019, at 18:40, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Much, much easier with the preview!  Thank you for adding this!

Great. You are welcome!

> I saw the note about <img>.  When using a pure markdown (versus an html <img>) there is no ability to size images.  Which means an image must be sized before loading into the wiki.  How are new images loaded into the wiki?  And what directory do they load into? 

Yeah, so images are difficult. Please do not size them before uploading them.

When writing the wiki, I found that there is no point in having an image that is not full width. What would that be? Screenshots are full size. Logos and so on can also fill the whole screen. Consider that we do not know the screen size of the user. Having an image sized to half the width of the white column would maybe work on your desktop, but not on someones much smaller phone screen.

Every namespace has an extra page to upload images. Just append /_files to the URL:

  https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/installation/_files

If you click on an image, it has an example on how it is being embedded into the markup.

This page uses those images for example: https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/installation/step3

Check out the caption. I like that one a lot :)

-Michael

> 
> Jon
> 
>> From: Michael Tremer
>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 12:31 PM
>> To: Jon Murphy
>> Cc: documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org, Matthias Fischer
>> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
>> 
>> 
>> I just updated popper.js. Error is gone.
>> 
>> So how are the changes to the wiki?
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

It looks like this was only broken for the index page.

I pushed out some changes. Please try again.

-Michael

> On 30 May 2019, at 18:04, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Michael - The preview does not work for me.  I see the word "Preview" and then to the far right I see a spinning circle.  Below that I see "Loading...".
> 
> Jon
> 
> <Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 11.45.40 AM.png>
> 
> 
>> From: Michael Tremer
>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 9:50 AM
>> To: Matthias Fischer
>> Cc: Jon Murphy; documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
>> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Okay, I just pushed some changes.
>> 
>> There is now a preview function which automatically updates. I quite like it. Tell me what you think.
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

Do you have javascript enabled?

Can you open the error console of your browser and let me know what it says?

I tested with Safari and Firefox. What browser are you using?

-Michael

> On 30 May 2019, at 18:04, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Michael - The preview does not work for me.  I see the word "Preview" and then to the far right I see a spinning circle.  Below that I see "Loading...".
> 
> Jon
> 
> <Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 11.45.40 AM.png>
> 
> 
>> From: Michael Tremer
>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019, 9:50 AM
>> To: Matthias Fischer
>> Cc: Jon Murphy; documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
>> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Okay, I just pushed some changes.
>> 
>> There is now a preview function which automatically updates. I quite like it. Tell me what you think.
>> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

Thank you for reporting that. This is now fixed.

-Michael

> On 28 May 2019, at 04:05, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I tied to update the links on the index page but I keep getting this error:
> 
> Error 405
> oops, something went wrong
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> From: Michael Tremer
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019, 11:27 AM
> To: Jon Murphy
> Cc: documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Yes, there are differences in plain markdown.
> 
> I have seen that you did a couple of changes and I have a couple of notes about those:
> 
> * You used absolute links: This is something that should not be done when linking other pages on the wiki. I have spent a lot of time to make the code fast enough when it fetches the headline of the page so that we will show the correct headline. The absolute links don’t work like that.
> 
> So wiki links are possible just as they were before with [[page]] and [[page#Other Title]].
> 
> * You used the <img> tag to embed an image. The image pages have a short snippet to embed the image:
> 
> https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/ipfire_tux_512x512.png?action=detail
> 
> All images will always be full widths by default (and there is no reason not do to that) because all pages have to be responsive and we need to be able to read them on mobile. So using custom heights and widths naturally won’t work. We don’t know how large the screen is someone is using.
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 28 May 2019, at 03:59, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Just so I understand - Is this an example of the absolute link you are referring to?
> https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/installation
> 
> Or is a link like this?
> /installation
> 
> Sorry, I just want to make sure I do things correct.

Yes, that would have been an absolute URL.

The advantage of using [[/installation]] is that the software fetches the title of the link and we might make links a different colour if the page does not exist or something.

-Michael

> 
> Jon
> From: Michael Tremer
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019, 11:27 AM
> To: Jon Murphy
> Cc: documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Yes, there are differences in plain markdown.
> 
> I have seen that you did a couple of changes and I have a couple of notes about those:
> 
> * You used absolute links: This is something that should not be done when linking other pages on the wiki. I have spent a lot of time to make the code fast enough when it fetches the headline of the page so that we will show the correct headline. The absolute links don’t work like that.
> 
> So wiki links are possible just as they were before with [[page]] and [[page#Other Title]].
> 
> * You used the <img> tag to embed an image. The image pages have a short snippet to embed the image:
> 
>  https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/ipfire_tux_512x512.png?action=detail
> 
> All images will always be full widths by default (and there is no reason not do to that) because all pages have to be responsive and we need to be able to read them on mobile. So using custom heights and widths naturally won’t work. We don’t know how large the screen is someone is using.
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hi,

> On 27 May 2019, at 18:10, Matthias Fischer <matthias.fischer(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
> 
> On 27.05.2019 18:27, Michael Tremer wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> ...
>> * Matthias saved the same page a couple of times. That definitely shows that we need a preview function :)
> 
> Yep. My opinion: I/we need this. Every now and then it happens that
> you'll miss something or produce a typo. A preview function would help
> avoiding this.

Okay, I just pushed some changes.

There is now a preview function which automatically updates. I quite like it. Tell me what you think.

> 
>> I do not want to point any fingers here at all. But I learned things from this. If it felt natural for you to do these things, but it was meant in another way then this is a bug in the software.
>> 
>> But I have no idea how to find a good solution for this. Admittedly nothing is documented yet, but future editors might not read the documentation. People edit first and I do want anyone to edit this wiki. We care about the information first, but we need to make sure that people do not mess up the markup.
> 
> That's why I - personally - would like to have something like 'Markdown’.

We sort of have markdown, but actually we almost use it to highlight words in bold.

I have added an image tag that works like the ones on Dokuwiki using {{…}}.

> 
>> I think that Dokuwiki is quite bad in that sense that it allows to be messy with the markup. This is also why conversion into another language is so difficult. There is multiple ways to do something and they can be mixed. Horror.
> 
> I wrote this with DokuWiki and I think, I know what you mean:
> http://www.copfilter.org/wiki
> 
> But I liked the editing tools... ;-)

We will get something done there.

> 
>> So what springs to mind here is: We could refuse saving the page when something is not right.
> 
> +1

I was rather pointing out that that is a bad idea lol

> 
>> But I think that might feel very frustrating. An <img> tag should never show up. If we find that, then we can just throw an error.
>> 
>> What do you guys think could work?
> 
> We should at least throw an error, refuse to save and go back to editing
> mode.

This is a horrible UI.

> 
>> 
>> -Michael
>> 
>> P.S. I pushed out a couple of fixes, but I do not have a preview function yet. Not sure whether I can make that update live or if we will have a button. Or maybe a two-step save process. I need to explore that a little. Please send me your thoughts in case you have any ideas. But make them easy to implement :)
> 
> I need a documentation... ;-)

You will get it. But since I am dropping the content of the whole wiki again and again to test the import, I cannot write anything yet.

> First thing that puzzled me today, e.g.:
> 
> On https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/actions/edit/installation/step1 at page
> bottom there is a link to the next step: [[./step2]].
> 
> This leads to https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/installation/step1/step2

So links work like this:

When you are in /installation/step1, then using a link like [[step2]] will translate to /installation/step2.

If you are using [[./something]], then that will result in /installation/step1/something.

And [[../blah]] of course will go back one step and result in /blah.

> 
> But this link doesn't work ("Page does not exist") and I have no chance
> to test it. I can only change something, save the page and and pray that
> it works. I tried and get: "oops, something went wrong".
> Hm. Yes. Great. ;-)
> 
> But what is the right syntax at this point? I'll try on weekend...
> 
> Best,
> Matthias

-Michael

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

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I tied to update the links on the index page but I keep getting this error:

Error 405
oops, something went wrong

Jon


From: Michael Tremer
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019, 11:27 AM
To: Jon Murphy
Cc: documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
Subject: Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)


Hello,

Yes, there are differences in plain markdown.

I have seen that you did a couple of changes and I have a couple of notes about those:

* You used absolute links: This is something that should not be done when linking other pages on the wiki. I have spent a lot of time to make the code fast enough when it fetches the headline of the page so that we will show the correct headline. The absolute links don’t work like that.

So wiki links are possible just as they were before with [[page]] and [[page#Other Title]].

* You used the <img> tag to embed an image. The image pages have a short snippet to embed the image:

 https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/ipfire_tux_512x512.png?action=detail

All images will always be full widths by default (and there is no reason not do to that) because all pages have to be responsive and we need to be able to read them on mobile. So using custom heights and widths naturally won’t work. We don’t know how large the screen is someone is using.

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Matthias Fischer]

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On 27.05.2019 18:27, Michael Tremer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> ...
> * Matthias saved the same page a couple of times. That definitely shows that we need a preview function :)

Yep. My opinion: I/we need this. Every now and then it happens that
you'll miss something or produce a typo. A preview function would help
avoiding this.

> I do not want to point any fingers here at all. But I learned things from this. If it felt natural for you to do these things, but it was meant in another way then this is a bug in the software.
> 
> But I have no idea how to find a good solution for this. Admittedly nothing is documented yet, but future editors might not read the documentation. People edit first and I do want anyone to edit this wiki. We care about the information first, but we need to make sure that people do not mess up the markup.

That's why I - personally - would like to have something like 'Markdown'.

> I think that Dokuwiki is quite bad in that sense that it allows to be messy with the markup. This is also why conversion into another language is so difficult. There is multiple ways to do something and they can be mixed. Horror.

I wrote this with DokuWiki and I think, I know what you mean:
http://www.copfilter.org/wiki

But I liked the editing tools... ;-)

> So what springs to mind here is: We could refuse saving the page when something is not right.

+1

> But I think that might feel very frustrating. An <img> tag should never show up. If we find that, then we can just throw an error.
> 
> What do you guys think could work?

We should at least throw an error, refuse to save and go back to editing
mode.

> 
> -Michael
> 
> P.S. I pushed out a couple of fixes, but I do not have a preview function yet. Not sure whether I can make that update live or if we will have a button. Or maybe a two-step save process. I need to explore that a little. Please send me your thoughts in case you have any ideas. But make them easy to implement :)

I need a documentation... ;-)

First thing that puzzled me today, e.g.:

On https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/actions/edit/installation/step1 at page
bottom there is a link to the next step: [[./step2]].

This leads to https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/installation/step1/step2

But this link doesn't work ("Page does not exist") and I have no chance
to test it. I can only change something, save the page and and pray that
it works. I tried and get: "oops, something went wrong".
Hm. Yes. Great. ;-)

But what is the right syntax at this point? I'll try on weekend...

Best,
Matthias

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

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Hello,

Yes, there are differences in plain markdown.

I have seen that you did a couple of changes and I have a couple of notes about those:

* You used absolute links: This is something that should not be done when linking other pages on the wiki. I have spent a lot of time to make the code fast enough when it fetches the headline of the page so that we will show the correct headline. The absolute links don’t work like that.

So wiki links are possible just as they were before with [[page]] and [[page#Other Title]].

* You used the <img> tag to embed an image. The image pages have a short snippet to embed the image:

  https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/ipfire_tux_512x512.png?action=detail

All images will always be full widths by default (and there is no reason not do to that) because all pages have to be responsive and we need to be able to read them on mobile. So using custom heights and widths naturally won’t work. We don’t know how large the screen is someone is using.

* Matthias saved the same page a couple of times. That definitely shows that we need a preview function :)

I do not want to point any fingers here at all. But I learned things from this. If it felt natural for you to do these things, but it was meant in another way then this is a bug in the software.

But I have no idea how to find a good solution for this. Admittedly nothing is documented yet, but future editors might not read the documentation. People edit first and I do want anyone to edit this wiki. We care about the information first, but we need to make sure that people do not mess up the markup.

I think that Dokuwiki is quite bad in that sense that it allows to be messy with the markup. This is also why conversion into another language is so difficult. There is multiple ways to do something and they can be mixed. Horror.

So what springs to mind here is: We could refuse saving the page when something is not right. But I think that might feel very frustrating. An <img> tag should never show up. If we find that, then we can just throw an error.

What do you guys think could work?

-Michael

P.S. I pushed out a couple of fixes, but I do not have a preview function yet. Not sure whether I can make that update live or if we will have a button. Or maybe a two-step save process. I need to explore that a little. Please send me your thoughts in case you have any ideas. But make them easy to implement :)

> On 24 May 2019, at 23:03, Jon Murphy <jcmurphy26(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Michael - It seems like there are some differences between Markdown and the new wiki app.  One is the double brackets, e.g., [[relativeLink]]
> 
> With the old wiki I could search thru the Dokuwiki website for hints. What is the name of the new app?  That will give us a better idea of how to use it.
> 
> Jon
> _______________________________________________
> Documentation mailing list
> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1392 bytes --]

Hi,

> On 26 May 2019, at 09:28, Matthias Fischer <matthias.fischer(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Login seems to be ok, but I'm missing some things that would make
> editing much easier:
> 
> - no ‘preview'

Would you guys like that?

> - no 'cancel' button ;-)

I thought you have a Back button :)

> - no toolbar with editing tools

I looked for a nice JS tool, but they are all unmaintained for ages. So that has to be written from scratch.

> - no 'playground' for testing

Just create the page :)

> 
> Syntax should be no problem - I took a look at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown (is this the right language?).

Yes, although we have some extensions. Wiki links work like they used to before.

> I also found
> https://github.com/adam-p/markdown-here/wiki/Markdown-Cheatsheet
> 
> There are a few examples here and there and this helps, but it would be
> great if we could get some kind of WUI for this in the future - an
> 'editor', as you wrote.

I will create a syntax reference as soon as we know that I do not have to re-import the whole thing.

Keep that in mind when you do any changes :)

-Michael

> 
> JM2C for now - Best,
> Matthias
> _______________________________________________
> Documentation mailing list
> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1392 bytes --]

Hi,

> On 26 May 2019, at 09:28, Matthias Fischer <matthias.fischer(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Login seems to be ok, but I'm missing some things that would make
> editing much easier:
> 
> - no ‘preview'

Would you guys like that?

> - no 'cancel' button ;-)

I thought you have a Back button :)

> - no toolbar with editing tools

I looked for a nice JS tool, but they are all unmaintained for ages. So that has to be written from scratch.

> - no 'playground' for testing

Just create the page :)

> 
> Syntax should be no problem - I took a look at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown (is this the right language?).

Yes, although we have some extensions. Wiki links work like they used to before.

> I also found
> https://github.com/adam-p/markdown-here/wiki/Markdown-Cheatsheet
> 
> There are a few examples here and there and this helps, but it would be
> great if we could get some kind of WUI for this in the future - an
> 'editor', as you wrote.

I will create a syntax reference as soon as we know that I do not have to re-import the whole thing.

Keep that in mind when you do any changes :)

-Michael

> 
> JM2C for now - Best,
> Matthias
> _______________________________________________
> Documentation mailing list
> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4258 bytes --]

Hello guys,

Thanks first of all to engage so much in this :)

> On 24 May 2019, at 12:07, Carlo Fusco <fusco.carlo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I tried to log in, but I get this error message:
> 
> -------
> Proxy Error
> 
> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
> The proxy server could not handle the request POST /login.
> 
> Reason: Error reading from remote server
> ———

This seemed to be caused by a blacklist that we are checking to identify spammers. The blacklist did not seem to respond in time. I have removed that one now and I hope that this will now work better.

Best,
-Michael

> 
>> On 24 May 2019, at 12:58, Carlo Fusco <fusco.carlo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> I volunteer to help. One thing I could do is the work necessary to fix the broken links and helping with the manual operations to port the old documents to the new wiki.
>> 
>> Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist you.
>> 
>> — 
>> Carlo Fusco
>> 
>>> On 23 May 2019, at 15:35, Michael Tremer <michael.tremer(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello people,
>>> 
>>> I am busy with migrating the wiki to the new webapp.
>>> 
>>> For those who are not aware of this happening: We are going to move away from Dokuwiki. The story is quite a long one, but in short it is that I am unhappy with it. It has been a solid piece of software for us, but the user registration process is broken. People cannot sign up to it. Spam bots can. It does not look very nice and all in all it is written in PHP.
>>> 
>>> The original plan was to port our design to it, but actually it is easier just to write some wiki stuff into the web app where other parts already exist. So I decided to use our web app and add two things: An editor for the pages, a place to upload files and a big function that renders the pages. That is about it.
>>> 
>>> This wiki uses markdown. The syntax is very similar to the Dokuwiki syntax with exception of images, tables and some other smaller things. But markdown is widely used. Loads of people have probably used it somewhere else before. Also this is handy because I did not have to implement something that renders my own syntax.
>>> 
>>> I have been working on a unified account system which is coming along nicely. I have also been working on a converter that is porting all content from Dokuwiki to the new wiki. Unfortunately this is not the easiest thing.
>>> 
>>> The “new” wiki is currently available at https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/.
>>> 
>>> Please feel free to browse around and have a look what works well and what doesn’t. All in all the converter converts a lot itself and I think the pages look nice and clean. But some things cannot be converted so there might be some stuff that we have to do manually.
>>> 
>>> The biggest of those are tables that do not follow the normal standard. The one on the index page for example is such a table.
>>> 
>>> The second thing that does not work very well is paths. Loads of links are broken and point at arbitrary stuff. The wiki now follows the usual filesystem approach with its URLs (: are / now) and you can go back with “..” and remain in the same directory with “.” or by using no prefix.
>>> 
>>> I also decided not to import the whole history of the wiki. I am not sure if there is any value in it. The data is old and there are tons of images that we no longer need. Also Dokuwiki has a nice API to go through all existing pages and going back into the archive is a bit more difficult.
>>> 
>>> So, please have a look around. Log in. Edit things. I will probably run the import again. Please help me find bugs and send me an email.
>>> 
>>> I would like to switch over as soon as possible.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> -Michael
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Documentation mailing list
>>> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
>>> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation
>> 
>> — 
>> I will abandon this email address soon, 
>> You can reach me at
>> carlo.fusco(a)pm.me
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> — 
> I will abandon this email address soon, 
> You can reach me at
> carlo.fusco(a)pm.me
> 
> 
> 

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Matthias Fischer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 587 bytes --]

Hi,

Login seems to be ok, but I'm missing some things that would make
editing much easier:

- no 'preview'
- no 'cancel' button ;-)
- no toolbar with editing tools
- no 'playground' for testing

Syntax should be no problem - I took a look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown (is this the right language?).

I also found
https://github.com/adam-p/markdown-here/wiki/Markdown-Cheatsheet

There are a few examples here and there and this helps, but it would be
great if we could get some kind of WUI for this in the future - an
'editor', as you wrote.

JM2C for now - Best,
Matthias

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 307 bytes --]

Michael - It seems like there are some differences between Markdown and the new wiki app.  One is the double brackets, e.g., [[relativeLink]]

With the old wiki I could search thru the Dokuwiki website for hints. What is the name of the new app?  That will give us a better idea of how to use it.

Jon

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Jon Murphy]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 430 bytes --]

Michael - I’d be happy to help also!

I tried to EDIT but I only get: 
Error 401 - oops, something went wrong


And I tried to login (bottom right corner of web page) but the web page just sits and waits.  Eventually I get:

Proxy Error
The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request GET /login.
Reason: Error reading from remote server


Jon

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Carlo Fusco]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3793 bytes --]

I tried to log in, but I get this error message:

-------
Proxy Error

The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request POST /login.

Reason: Error reading from remote server
-------

> On 24 May 2019, at 12:58, Carlo Fusco <fusco.carlo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> I volunteer to help. One thing I could do is the work necessary to fix the broken links and helping with the manual operations to port the old documents to the new wiki.
> 
> Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist you.
> 
> — 
> Carlo Fusco
> 
>> On 23 May 2019, at 15:35, Michael Tremer <michael.tremer(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello people,
>> 
>> I am busy with migrating the wiki to the new webapp.
>> 
>> For those who are not aware of this happening: We are going to move away from Dokuwiki. The story is quite a long one, but in short it is that I am unhappy with it. It has been a solid piece of software for us, but the user registration process is broken. People cannot sign up to it. Spam bots can. It does not look very nice and all in all it is written in PHP.
>> 
>> The original plan was to port our design to it, but actually it is easier just to write some wiki stuff into the web app where other parts already exist. So I decided to use our web app and add two things: An editor for the pages, a place to upload files and a big function that renders the pages. That is about it.
>> 
>> This wiki uses markdown. The syntax is very similar to the Dokuwiki syntax with exception of images, tables and some other smaller things. But markdown is widely used. Loads of people have probably used it somewhere else before. Also this is handy because I did not have to implement something that renders my own syntax.
>> 
>> I have been working on a unified account system which is coming along nicely. I have also been working on a converter that is porting all content from Dokuwiki to the new wiki. Unfortunately this is not the easiest thing.
>> 
>> The “new” wiki is currently available at https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/.
>> 
>> Please feel free to browse around and have a look what works well and what doesn’t. All in all the converter converts a lot itself and I think the pages look nice and clean. But some things cannot be converted so there might be some stuff that we have to do manually.
>> 
>> The biggest of those are tables that do not follow the normal standard. The one on the index page for example is such a table.
>> 
>> The second thing that does not work very well is paths. Loads of links are broken and point at arbitrary stuff. The wiki now follows the usual filesystem approach with its URLs (: are / now) and you can go back with “..” and remain in the same directory with “.” or by using no prefix.
>> 
>> I also decided not to import the whole history of the wiki. I am not sure if there is any value in it. The data is old and there are tons of images that we no longer need. Also Dokuwiki has a nice API to go through all existing pages and going back into the archive is a bit more difficult.
>> 
>> So, please have a look around. Log in. Edit things. I will probably run the import again. Please help me find bugs and send me an email.
>> 
>> I would like to switch over as soon as possible.
>> 
>> Best,
>> -Michael
>> _______________________________________________
>> Documentation mailing list
>> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
>> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation
> 
> — 
> I will abandon this email address soon, 
> You can reach me at
> carlo.fusco(a)pm.me
> 
> 
> 

— 
I will abandon this email address soon, 
You can reach me at
carlo.fusco(a)pm.me

Re: New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Carlo Fusco]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3286 bytes --]

Hi Michael,

I volunteer to help. One thing I could do is the work necessary to fix the broken links and helping with the manual operations to port the old documents to the new wiki.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist you.

— 
Carlo Fusco

> On 23 May 2019, at 15:35, Michael Tremer <michael.tremer(a)ipfire.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello people,
> 
> I am busy with migrating the wiki to the new webapp.
> 
> For those who are not aware of this happening: We are going to move away from Dokuwiki. The story is quite a long one, but in short it is that I am unhappy with it. It has been a solid piece of software for us, but the user registration process is broken. People cannot sign up to it. Spam bots can. It does not look very nice and all in all it is written in PHP.
> 
> The original plan was to port our design to it, but actually it is easier just to write some wiki stuff into the web app where other parts already exist. So I decided to use our web app and add two things: An editor for the pages, a place to upload files and a big function that renders the pages. That is about it.
> 
> This wiki uses markdown. The syntax is very similar to the Dokuwiki syntax with exception of images, tables and some other smaller things. But markdown is widely used. Loads of people have probably used it somewhere else before. Also this is handy because I did not have to implement something that renders my own syntax.
> 
> I have been working on a unified account system which is coming along nicely. I have also been working on a converter that is porting all content from Dokuwiki to the new wiki. Unfortunately this is not the easiest thing.
> 
> The “new” wiki is currently available at https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/.
> 
> Please feel free to browse around and have a look what works well and what doesn’t. All in all the converter converts a lot itself and I think the pages look nice and clean. But some things cannot be converted so there might be some stuff that we have to do manually.
> 
> The biggest of those are tables that do not follow the normal standard. The one on the index page for example is such a table.
> 
> The second thing that does not work very well is paths. Loads of links are broken and point at arbitrary stuff. The wiki now follows the usual filesystem approach with its URLs (: are / now) and you can go back with “..” and remain in the same directory with “.” or by using no prefix.
> 
> I also decided not to import the whole history of the wiki. I am not sure if there is any value in it. The data is old and there are tons of images that we no longer need. Also Dokuwiki has a nice API to go through all existing pages and going back into the archive is a bit more difficult.
> 
> So, please have a look around. Log in. Edit things. I will probably run the import again. Please help me find bugs and send me an email.
> 
> I would like to switch over as soon as possible.
> 
> Best,
> -Michael
> _______________________________________________
> Documentation mailing list
> Documentation(a)lists.ipfire.org
> https://lists.ipfire.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation

— 
I will abandon this email address soon, 
You can reach me at
carlo.fusco(a)pm.me

New Wiki Software - Please help testing :)

[Michael Tremer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2590 bytes --]

Hello people,

I am busy with migrating the wiki to the new webapp.

For those who are not aware of this happening: We are going to move away from Dokuwiki. The story is quite a long one, but in short it is that I am unhappy with it. It has been a solid piece of software for us, but the user registration process is broken. People cannot sign up to it. Spam bots can. It does not look very nice and all in all it is written in PHP.

The original plan was to port our design to it, but actually it is easier just to write some wiki stuff into the web app where other parts already exist. So I decided to use our web app and add two things: An editor for the pages, a place to upload files and a big function that renders the pages. That is about it.

This wiki uses markdown. The syntax is very similar to the Dokuwiki syntax with exception of images, tables and some other smaller things. But markdown is widely used. Loads of people have probably used it somewhere else before. Also this is handy because I did not have to implement something that renders my own syntax.

I have been working on a unified account system which is coming along nicely. I have also been working on a converter that is porting all content from Dokuwiki to the new wiki. Unfortunately this is not the easiest thing.

The “new” wiki is currently available at https://wiki.dev.ipfire.org/.

Please feel free to browse around and have a look what works well and what doesn’t. All in all the converter converts a lot itself and I think the pages look nice and clean. But some things cannot be converted so there might be some stuff that we have to do manually.

The biggest of those are tables that do not follow the normal standard. The one on the index page for example is such a table.

The second thing that does not work very well is paths. Loads of links are broken and point at arbitrary stuff. The wiki now follows the usual filesystem approach with its URLs (: are / now) and you can go back with “..” and remain in the same directory with “.” or by using no prefix.

I also decided not to import the whole history of the wiki. I am not sure if there is any value in it. The data is old and there are tons of images that we no longer need. Also Dokuwiki has a nice API to go through all existing pages and going back into the archive is a bit more difficult.

So, please have a look around. Log in. Edit things. I will probably run the import again. Please help me find bugs and send me an email.

I would like to switch over as soon as possible.

Best,
-Michael