I would argue that this won’t be helpful for anyone. If you are a person that reads “check filesystem” and thinks that means “repair filesystem”, then you’re a person that’ll read “run fsck” and think it means “repair filesystem using fsck.”

My suggestion would be to add another menu option that actually does repair things, or to change the name from “check filesystem” to “check filesystem (no repairs made)” or something like that.

Tom

On Nov 18, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Leo-Andres Hofmann hofmann@leo-andres.de wrote:

Yes, this is totally cosmetic. In the past, I have noticed a few forum posts where people assumed this button would automatically fix file permissions or even configuration issues. I think the new label is clearer and leaves no room for false expectations.

...

Am 18.11.2022 um 13:07 schrieb Bernhard Bitsch: I think this are cosmetics. The new text adds no new information. 'check filesystem' is a synonym to 'run fsck' in a Linux system, IMHO. But if it helps some users, we can change this button text.

Reviewed-by: Bernhard Bitsch bbitsch@ipfire.org

...

Am 18.11.2022 um 11:49 schrieb Leo-Andres Hofmann: Some users assume that "check filesystem" does more than just trigger a simple "fsck" run. This patch changes the button label to avoid confusion.

Signed-off-by: Leo-Andres Hofmann hofmann@leo-andres.de

langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl | 2 +- langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl | 2 +- langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl | 2 +- 3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl b/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl index db7d117b0..110e4ccba 100644 --- a/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl +++ b/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl @@ -2144,7 +2144,7 @@ 'real address' => 'Reale Addresse', 'reboot' => 'Neustart', 'reboot ask' => 'Neustart?', -'reboot fsck' => 'Neustart & Dateisystem-Test', +'reboot fsck' => 'Neustart & ‘fsck’ ausführen', 'reboot question' => 'Extra Abfrage bei neustart und herunterfahren einschalten', 'reboot schedule' => 'Zeitsteuerung für IPFire Neustarts', 'reboot sure' => 'Sind Sie sicher, dass Sie neustarten wollen?', diff --git a/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl b/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl index 60dca5be4..004c64b6a 100644 --- a/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl +++ b/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl @@ -2198,7 +2198,7 @@ 'real address' => 'Real Address', 'reboot' => 'Reboot', 'reboot ask' => 'Reboot?', -'reboot fsck' => 'Reboot & check filesystem', +'reboot fsck' => 'Reboot & run ‘fsck’', 'reboot question' => 'Extra query for restart and shutdown', 'reboot schedule' => 'Schedule IPFire reboots', 'reboot sure' => 'Are you sure that you want to reboot?', diff --git a/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl b/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl index a1643557e..e46c4fa46 100644 --- a/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl +++ b/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl @@ -2206,7 +2206,7 @@ 'real address' => 'Adresse réelle', 'reboot' => 'Redémarrer', 'reboot ask' => 'Redémarrage ?', -'reboot fsck' => 'Redémarrer et vérifier le système de fichier', +'reboot fsck' => 'Redémarrer et exécuter ‘fsck’', 'reboot question' => 'Requête supplémentaire pour le redémarrage et l'arrêt', 'reboot schedule' => 'Redémarrages planifiées d'IPFire', 'reboot sure' => 'Etes-vous sûr de vouloir redémarrer ?',

Hello,

I really like this conversation here :)

On 20 Nov 2022, at 19:49, Robin Roevens robin.roevens@disroot.org wrote:

Maybe "Check filesystem consistency" is more clear ?

I think this would be the clearest option.

However, I do not know why we have this button in the first place. Why would you suspect having an inconsistent file system? And if you do, is this button actually helping?

I am not suggestion to remove it - I am just questioning why we have this and who would use it and when. I just don’t know.

-Michael

Or just check filesystem like it was and add a clear description on the wiki page https://wiki.ipfire.org/configuration/system/shutdown

Robin

Tom Rymes schreef op vr 18-11-2022 om 19:15 [-0500]:

...

I would argue that this won’t be helpful for anyone. If you are a person that reads “check filesystem” and thinks that means “repair filesystem”, then you’re a person that’ll read “run fsck” and think it means “repair filesystem using fsck.”

My suggestion would be to add another menu option that actually does repair things, or to change the name from “check filesystem” to “check filesystem (no repairs made)” or something like that.

Tom

...

On Nov 18, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Leo-Andres Hofmann hofmann@leo-andres.de wrote:

Yes, this is totally cosmetic. In the past, I have noticed a few forum posts where people assumed this button would automatically fix file permissions or even configuration issues. I think the new label is clearer and leaves no room for false expectations.

...

Am 18.11.2022 um 13:07 schrieb Bernhard Bitsch: I think this are cosmetics. The new text adds no new information. 'check filesystem' is a synonym to 'run fsck' in a Linux system, IMHO. But if it helps some users, we can change this button text.

Reviewed-by: Bernhard Bitsch bbitsch@ipfire.org

...

Am 18.11.2022 um 11:49 schrieb Leo-Andres Hofmann: Some users assume that "check filesystem" does more than just trigger a simple "fsck" run. This patch changes the button label to avoid confusion.

Signed-off-by: Leo-Andres Hofmann hofmann@leo-andres.de

langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl | 2 +- langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl | 2 +- langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl | 2 +- 3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl b/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl index db7d117b0..110e4ccba 100644 --- a/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl +++ b/langs/de/cgi-bin/de.pl @@ -2144,7 +2144,7 @@ 'real address' => 'Reale Addresse', 'reboot' => 'Neustart', 'reboot ask' => 'Neustart?', -'reboot fsck' => 'Neustart & Dateisystem-Test', +'reboot fsck' => 'Neustart & ‘fsck’ ausführen', 'reboot question' => 'Extra Abfrage bei neustart und herunterfahren einschalten', 'reboot schedule' => 'Zeitsteuerung für IPFire Neustarts', 'reboot sure' => 'Sind Sie sicher, dass Sie neustarten wollen?', diff --git a/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl b/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl index 60dca5be4..004c64b6a 100644 --- a/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl +++ b/langs/en/cgi-bin/en.pl @@ -2198,7 +2198,7 @@ 'real address' => 'Real Address', 'reboot' => 'Reboot', 'reboot ask' => 'Reboot?', -'reboot fsck' => 'Reboot & check filesystem', +'reboot fsck' => 'Reboot & run ‘fsck’', 'reboot question' => 'Extra query for restart and shutdown', 'reboot schedule' => 'Schedule IPFire reboots', 'reboot sure' => 'Are you sure that you want to reboot?', diff --git a/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl b/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl index a1643557e..e46c4fa46 100644 --- a/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl +++ b/langs/fr/cgi-bin/fr.pl @@ -2206,7 +2206,7 @@ 'real address' => 'Adresse réelle', 'reboot' => 'Redémarrer', 'reboot ask' => 'Redémarrage ?', -'reboot fsck' => 'Redémarrer et vérifier le système de fichier', +'reboot fsck' => 'Redémarrer et exécuter ‘fsck’', 'reboot question' => 'Requête supplémentaire pour le redémarrage et l'arrêt', 'reboot schedule' => 'Redémarrages planifiées d'IPFire', 'reboot sure' => 'Etes-vous sûr de vouloir redémarrer ?',

-- Dit bericht is gescanned op virussen en andere gevaarlijke inhoud door MailScanner en lijkt schoon te zijn.

I'm still confused by what a user might expect, OTHER than a fsck check?

On 11/18/2022 10:42 AM, Robin Roevens wrote:

Some users assume that "check filesystem" does more than just trigger a simple "fsck" run. This patch changes the button label to avoid confusion. - NL translation

Signed-off-by: Robin Roevens robin.roevens@disroot.org

langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl | 1 + 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)

diff --git a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl index 4fd6955cc..ebac2754a 100644 --- a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl +++ b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl @@ -1804,6 +1804,7 @@ 'read list' => 'lijst met readonly hosts', 'real address' => 'Echte adressen', 'reboot' => 'Herstarten', +'reboot fsck' => 'Herstart & start ‘fsck’', 'reboot ask' => 'Herstarten?', 'reboot question' => 'Extra vraag voor herstart en afsluiten', 'reboot schedule' => 'Inplannen IPFire herstarts',

Ok, this was probably a bad idea. So please ignore/remove this patch. Sorry for the noise.

Am 19.11.2022 um 12:53 schrieb Michael Tremer:

I can second this.

Why is fsck more obvious then “file system check”?

It is a more technical term which does not provide any more detail in my opinion.

-Michael

...

On 18 Nov 2022, at 18:02, Tom Rymes tom@rymes.net wrote:

I'm still confused by what a user might expect, OTHER than a fsck check?

On 11/18/2022 10:42 AM, Robin Roevens wrote:

...

Some users assume that "check filesystem" does more than just trigger a simple "fsck" run. This patch changes the button label to avoid confusion. - NL translation Signed-off-by: Robin Roevens robin.roevens@disroot.org

---

langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl | 1 + 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) diff --git a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl index 4fd6955cc..ebac2754a 100644 --- a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl +++ b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl @@ -1804,6 +1804,7 @@ 'read list' => 'lijst met readonly hosts', 'real address' => 'Echte adressen', 'reboot' => 'Herstarten', +'reboot fsck' => 'Herstart & start ‘fsck’', 'reboot ask' => 'Herstarten?', 'reboot question' => 'Extra vraag voor herstart en afsluiten', 'reboot schedule' => 'Inplannen IPFire herstarts',

On 19/11/2022 16:20, Tom Rymes wrote:

This does raise the question of how a user would repair filesystem errors if this option only checks for errors and does not present the option to repair any issues found.

Should the be an option to do that?

My view on that is that there should not be the option to repair.

Repair of a filesystem in some automated fashion without looking at the specific errors involved and deciding the best way to fix them is more likely to result in worse damage than to make things better.

If the filesystem involved is a journaling one and that doesn't fix things on a reboot then I believe some pretty severe corruption is likely to have occurred and the best thing is to re-install IPFire and do a restore and/or look at the smart data to see if the hard disk is on the way out rather than trying to fix the corrupted parts of the filesystem.

It might be a good idea to put the above info into the wiki page so that people have some guidance on the recommended approach if they end up with errors from the fsck.

Regards,

Adolf.

Tom

...

On Nov 19, 2022, at 7:47 AM, Leo-Andres Hofmann hofmann@leo-andres.de wrote:

Ok, this was probably a bad idea. So please ignore/remove this patch. Sorry for the noise.

...

Am 19.11.2022 um 12:53 schrieb Michael Tremer: I can second this.

Why is fsck more obvious then “file system check”?

It is a more technical term which does not provide any more detail in my opinion.

-Michael

...

...

On 18 Nov 2022, at 18:02, Tom Rymes tom@rymes.net wrote:

I'm still confused by what a user might expect, OTHER than a fsck check?

On 11/18/2022 10:42 AM, Robin Roevens wrote:

...

Some users assume that "check filesystem" does more than just trigger a simple "fsck" run. This patch changes the button label to avoid confusion. - NL translation Signed-off-by: Robin Roevens robin.roevens@disroot.org

---

langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl | 1 + 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) diff --git a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl index 4fd6955cc..ebac2754a 100644 --- a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl +++ b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl @@ -1804,6 +1804,7 @@ 'read list' => 'lijst met readonly hosts', 'real address' => 'Echte adressen', 'reboot' => 'Herstarten', +'reboot fsck' => 'Herstart & start ‘fsck’', 'reboot ask' => 'Herstarten?', 'reboot question' => 'Extra vraag voor herstart en afsluiten', 'reboot schedule' => 'Inplannen IPFire herstarts',

I'm not sure.. since I have not yet had any ipfire fs inconsistencies.  But if a user presses that button, on a headless system (like an ipfire appliance). How will he know if there where errors on the filesystem ?(except when the errors are so severe that the system won't boot any further) I assume it will be in the system logfiles.. But then currently we are (trying to) accommodate users that don't seem to understand "Reboot & check filesystem" as "run fsck during startup". Hence, if they press that button, they will probably assume to get some filesystem check report after it is done ? Or at least some alert somewhere if there where errors detected ?

Considering this, I'm leaning towards the idea to just remove that button :-).. Or maybe the fsck result could be emailed to the user, or trigger a visible alert on de webui.. ?

Robin

Michael Tremer schreef op ma 21-11-2022 om 11:29 [+0000]:

Oh, I overlooked this email.

It sums up very well how I see this :) Great write.

-Michael

...

On 19 Nov 2022, at 16:59, Adolf Belka adolf.belka@ipfire.org wrote:

On 19/11/2022 16:20, Tom Rymes wrote:

...

This does raise the question of how a user would repair filesystem errors if this option only checks for errors and does not present the option to repair any issues found.

Should the be an option to do that?

My view on that is that there should not be the option to repair.

Repair of a filesystem in some automated fashion without looking at the specific errors involved and deciding the best way to fix them is more likely to result in worse damage than to make things better.

If the filesystem involved is a journaling one and that doesn't fix things on a reboot then I believe some pretty severe corruption is likely to have occurred and the best thing is to re-install IPFire and do a restore and/or look at the smart data to see if the hard disk is on the way out rather than trying to fix the corrupted parts of the filesystem.

It might be a good idea to put the above info into the wiki page so that people have some guidance on the recommended approach if they end up with errors from the fsck.

Regards,

Adolf.

...

Tom

...

On Nov 19, 2022, at 7:47 AM, Leo-Andres Hofmann hofmann@leo-andres.de wrote:

Ok, this was probably a bad idea. So please ignore/remove this patch. Sorry for the noise.

...

Am 19.11.2022 um 12:53 schrieb Michael Tremer: I can second this.

Why is fsck more obvious then “file system check”?

It is a more technical term which does not provide any more detail in my opinion.

-Michael

...

> On 18 Nov 2022, at 18:02, Tom Rymes tom@rymes.net > wrote: I'm  still confused by what a user might expect, OTHER than a fsck check?

On 11/18/2022 10:42 AM, Robin Roevens wrote: > Some users assume that "check filesystem" does more than > just > trigger a simple "fsck" run. This patch changes the > button label to avoid > confusion. - NL translation > Signed-off-by: Robin Roevens robin.roevens@disroot.org > --- >  langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl | 1 + >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) > diff --git a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl b/langs/nl/cgi- > bin/nl.pl > index 4fd6955cc..ebac2754a 100644 > --- a/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl > +++ b/langs/nl/cgi-bin/nl.pl > @@ -1804,6 +1804,7 @@ >  'read list' => 'lijst met readonly hosts', >  'real address' => 'Echte adressen', >  'reboot' => 'Herstarten', > +'reboot fsck' => 'Herstart & start ‘fsck’', >  'reboot ask' => 'Herstarten?', >  'reboot question' => 'Extra vraag voor herstart en > afsluiten', >  'reboot schedule' => 'Inplannen IPFire herstarts',

-- Sent from my laptop